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June 2005 Weblog   Advanced

This Month's Posts: Darwin's Filch · Wrongo, Wrongo · Bet You Can Join · Hail to the Jefe · Khangaþyagon Court · Mandarin, Duck · Testing, 1, 2, 3 · Out of Pocket · Rosa By Any Other Name · Ciao Down on the History of Italian · Ask Mr. Conlanguage Person · The Nake Truth · At First Glance · Tepa not Tepid · Long Live the Corpus

Next Month's Entries

Darwin's Filch - 6/21/05 - 6:30 pm
Larry Sulky writes, "Jeffrey, thanks for your write-up on Konya in your blog recently. In looking for a ready source for additional vocabulary, I have latched leechlike onto Kali-sise, adapting many of your 400 well-researched roots into Konya's not-too-dissimilar phonology . I hope this is okay with you. If it's not, let me know, and I will filch elsewhere."

By all means, "filch" away: you may want to check my Dublex roots, which I used as a source for Kali-sise and have explicitly placed in the public domain. A key source for Dublex was in turn the Lojban etymological dictionary , which is also in the public domain.

If more language builders explicitly placed their word lists in the public domain, we might more quickly evolve a better base lexicon. For now, see the word lists we've indexed.

Happy lexicon building!

Wrongo, Wrongo - 6/20/05 - 6:24 pm
Yucel writes:
Your Langmaker site is a treasure trove of information. Congratulations! My interest in creating a language is old (since I was a child, in fact) but it was rekindled when I came across your site.

Since you're the expert in conlangs, I'd like to ask you two questions:
  1. Do you know of anybody who's made a language, invented its writing system, wrote texts with it and then published these texts on a web-page offering a challenge for anyone interested to try their hand at deciphering the language? Obviously I'm not talking about mere code-breaking stuff, but a real, developed conlang.
  2. This is not directly related with conlangs but with my previous question: Which are the ancient scripts that remain undeciphered? I know a few, but I wonder if you know a source with a complete list. It would also be wonderful if you can direct me to a web site with sample texts written in unknown scripts (except for the Voynich manuscript).
To the first point, no, I'm not aware of any. I use to love code-breaking as a kid, but that sounds positively impossible to puzzle out correctly. To the second point, check out Omniglot's list of undeciphered scripts and Wikipedia's as well.

And thanks for the kind words: I'll take compliments in any language!

Bet You Can Join - 6/19/05 - 5:40 pm
Fire Unicorn writes, "Hi. I was interested in submitting a conlang to your site, and found out about the Yahoo! Group. It must be some really regal group, because I have yet to find a way to join it. I lack the computer knowledge to set up my own website, so the Yahoo! group is probably the only shot I have at this. Please let me know how I could become a member of this langmaker2 group."

Oops. I didn't think I had hidden it that well. It's actually linked to from the Submit page: Langmaker2 Group Subscription. When it was open membership, we were getting a ton of spam; I got so fed up one day that I just closed the membership.

Nowadays the volunteer editors have been getting a lot of spam for submissions. We're not going to be providing listings to online casinos anytime soon.

Hail to the Jefe - 6/18/05 - 6:03 pm
Barry Garcia writes, "About English names with no historical equivalents in languages like Spanish or French [in Rosa By Any Other Name], Greg Bont listed Jessica and gave his equivalents, but I've seen quite a bit with girls who are of Mexican ancestry with this name translated as Yesica."

Thanks for the example, Barry.

In my first Spanish class in junior high, every student had to be called by the Spanish equivalent of their name: my friend Bob became Roberto, my friend Ron became Ronaldo, and so forth. I was called Jeff back then, and since that has no Spanish equivalent, I got to choose my name. I chose César, having delusions of grandeur. The grandeur has lessened: at work today, some of my employees call me Jefe.

Khangaþyagon Court - 6/17/05 - 6:47 pm
Peter Bleackley wrote:
I read with interest the article "Logjam", which is in part a response to my own article, "Critical Path", where I offered fellow conlangers a chance to comment, via a wiki site, on Khangaþyagon. Nobody has yet taken me up on this offer, and the article goes some way as to explaining why this is. Matt Arnold states that unlike auxlangs, there are no objective standards against which artlangs can be judged. This may be so, but I don't believe it's the complete story. Any artistic endeavour sets some goals for itself, and an artist potentially has more to learn from his peers' opinions as to whether he has succeeded in his goals than his own.

Here are some of the goals of Khangaþyagon.
  1. To be naturalistic. Does Khangaþyagon seem enough like a real language to convince? If so, why? If not, why not? What would have improved it?
  2. To be a magical language. In its fictional setting, Khangaþyagon is used by wizards for magical purposes. Does it seem magical to you? Discuss.
  3. To be aesthetically pleasing in a Germanic sort of way. Khangaþyagon isn't a Germanic language, but I was in part inspired by Germanic languages. What do you find pleasing or displeasing about the results?
Come on - go critique Khangaþyagon! (Provide constructive criticism, of course.)

Mandarin, Duck - 6/17/05 - 12:22 am
Larry Sulky wrote back in March asking me the status of the submission of Kon'ya, his IAL. We did headline it in May, but I'm slowly trying to catch up on my e-mail, and I had never gotten back to him and only now had a chance to look at the language. It is very professionally done and definitely worth reviewing. Some of the things I like about Kon'ya:
  • It meets my pet peeve of using all 26 Latin letters in an auxlang.
  • Sulky has 134 numbered examples of Kon'ya sentences , each illustrating a principle, like #27, konlena lenyu wi xinlena wixa konhunlena, "The student learns the lesson from the teacher".
  • He presents an amusing forecast for the future: answering the question, "But do you honestly think that, with English already so widespread, there is any support for an international language other than English?", Sulky says, "English speakers have a lot of company and don't have a lot of incentive to learn other languages, no matter how easy they may be. This will continue for many more decades. I reckon that by 2040, when Mandarin is the language of commerce and technology, the English speakers of the world will heartily (and tardily) endorse the idea of a simple international language. Of course, the Mandarin speakers of the world won't see much need for one."
Interestingly, the Telegraph recently posted its own question and answer on this future: Who can stop the rise and rise of China? The communists, of course.

As for Kon'ya, ninpe yo lenyu ne wi xinlena.

Testing, 1, 2, 3 - 6/15/05 - 6:01 pm
Andrew Nowicki, author of the auxiliary language Ygyde, proposes a method to test the effectiveness of auxlangs.

Out of Pocket - 6/13/05 - 7:21 am
Bernd scribis:
The following comment in your editorial on Esperanto -- "but also with pockets of speakers in Japan and China" -- does it a grave injustice and is arguably incorrect. There are pockets of speakers globally. South America and Africa in particular have vibrant pockets of speakers, and they exist almost everywhere. Your selection of China and Japan is interesting only because these two countries in Asia have significant "pockets" of speakers. I would have said they have comparatively strong populations of speakers myself.

I'd refer you to this site as just one very pessimistic (arguably realistic) estimate for Esperanto speakers globally. Alas (unless you are conversant with it), it is in Esperanto, but all the columns containing numbers are someone's estimate for the number of speakers in each country. Bearing in mind that estimates are hard, and at the far right you have the most pessimistic and at the far left the most optimistic.
Long-time readers know that I'm a fan of Esperanto, but I'm not persuaded, though the chart was handy and readable. Thus proving to me that Arabic numerals are the true international auxiliary language. :-)

Rosa By Any Other Name - 6/12/05 - 11:23 am
Greg Bont writes:
I studied Spanish for four years and French for three. I've also taught myself Italian and Latin. Among my hobbies is inventing foreign equivalents to obscure American or otherwise English names that have no historically standard equivalents. For example, we all know that Charles becomes Carlos in Spanish, so there's no reason Bruce can't become Bruzo. My philosophy is to re-formulate the name to fit the phonotactics of the target language, while allowing it to retain enough orthographic resemblance to the original that it can be easily recognized.

More examples:
  • Brooke = Broca or Bruca (Sp.), Brocca or Brucca (It.), and Broque or Brouque (Fr.)
  • Clark = Clarco (Sp. & It.) and Clarques (Fr.)
  • Jessica = Chésica or Jésica (Sp.), Jessique (Fr.), and Gessica (It.)
I have also created name equivalents for my conlang, which brings me to the point of this correspondence. I would like to suggest the idea of a section of the LangMaker site that allows conlangers to submit one or more of the following data:
  1. A list of common names unique to their language both in form and in origin
  2. A list or selection of the conlang's versions of the common Biblical or otherwise traditional first names often used throughout Europe and America in some form or other (i.e. John, Charles, James, Robert, Mary, Isabel, etc.). A list of these names in English could be available on the site for reference in a way analogous to the Babel text.
  3. A selection of name equivalents in the conlang of non-traditional or even fictional names
What are your thoughts?
I would be very interested in reading such a resource, but I don't want to be the one to maintain it. :-) Unfortunately, Langmaker has reached the point where even with the help of volunteers my 15-minute conlang-break each day is no longer enough to keep up. Instead I would encourage you to contribute to one of the conlanging wikis. And, of course, we'll list it as a resource here.

Ciao Down on the History of Italian - 6/11/05 - 11:37 am
Mauro Baglieri, our hardworking editor of neologisms, has written a History of Italian.
Divided in 11 chapters, it starts from Imperial times and ends with the Internet. Chapter 1 also contains the original Latin alphabet (and the V -U discussion that has caused much misunderstanding in modern times), and a phonetic reconstruction of classical Latin. Chapter 4 shows the phonological changes from Latin to Italian as mediated by Sicilian. It's quite a bit, so if you see something that is wrong, or have any suggestions, let me know.

If you are also interested in present-day conversational Italian (it's a how-to) please go to What is Italian?

Thanks for your interest and I hope it may be of use for your readers!
What are you waiting for? Go read it! Ciao!

Ask Mr. Conlanguage Person - 6/10/05 - 5:34 pm
Nick Kalivoda has questions. We've got answers.

Q: I'm thinking about starting a new conlang, and despite all your great resources here, I was wondering if you could suggest any ways to give a language its own unique sound. Are there any phonological rules that make a language sound smooth?
A: Smoothness is in the ear of the beholder, but many people prefer words with CV and CVN syllable structures (Consonant+Vowel+Nasal), avoiding consonant clusters. I typically like CVK structures, where K is a subset of C (something like /n/, /m/, /ng/, /r/ and /l/ for instance).

Q: How did Tolkien achieve the sound of Quenya?
A: He began with a finished product: he started with a natural language he liked and then refined that phonology to better suit his preferences. I tried (without success) to learn from this with Emulating Tolkien.

Q: Also, are there any basic phonological rules that all languages follow to facilitate speaking?
A: Fewer than you think. Languages create all sorts of monstrosities (like English strengths, a CCCVCCC syllable, where /ng/ and /th/ are each single consonants). And then there's the languages that say, "Vowels, we don't need no stinking vowels."

Q: And finally, what resource would you suggest as a basic starting point for learning terminology (i.e., plosives, fricatives, etc.)?
A: The Wikipedia's section on Manner of Articulation.

The Nake Truth - 6/09/05 - 6:35 pm
Zompist writes in about the recent submission of nake, "1. Taking off your clothes. 2. Taking off someone else's clothes."
In fact nake is the opposite of a neologism (paleologism?)-- it's the original form of the word. It meant 'strip' or 'peel', and 'naked' is simply the past participle. You could use it of fruits as well as people.

The OED reports that nake goes back to Old English nacian, and beyond that to Indo-European. It seems to have died out in the 1600s as a verb, though they do have a citation from 1887.
Thanks, Zomp. I do like Bryan Ashley James Parry's second sense ("Taking off someone else's clothes"), which does seem "neo".

Oh, and congrats on Verdurian coming in at #46 on the Top 200, ahead of my Kali-sise! Maybe next year we'll both pass Robert Jordan!

At First Glance - 6/08/05 - 5:27 pm
Melroch asks about the conlang update forms: "What does Conculture Noun Phrase mean?"

This is a noun phrase you should write to describe your language's speakers:
  • The aliens from Area 51
  • The cute furry marsupials of Planet X
  • The psychic cyborgs rescued from the tsunami of Serebraal VII [hey, five /s/ sounds, each written differently!]
The conculture noun phrase is used to generate the Conlangs At A Glance page.

Tepa not Tepid - 6/03/05 - 10:23 am
Erik writes:
Out of these ten, I'd place Tepa higher - if not number one - because it's not just exotic for the sake of being exotic. Tepa seems to be designed very consistently, and it's a very natural-looking language. Besides, it fits in nicely as a native North-American language in general, although it does differ from [natural] languages more or less surrounding it (thus making its existence a bit unlikely).

Just for the record: I'm not saying any of the above is necessary for a language in order to deserve a high ranking, but I do think all of the above together does earn it a high ranking.
Thanks for writing, Erik. I've always loved Tepa, which is one of the reasons I offered to host Dirk's pages years ago.

Long Live the Corpus - 6/01/05 - 10:10 am
The next-generation Google translator will use proprietary Google technology based on EBMT (Example-based machine translation), mining linked texts (the same texts translated into multiple languages). While this is not a new technique (dating back to 1984), Google brings to it some unique strengths:
  • First, this is based on a corpus of United Nations translations, some 200 billion words: by far the largest corpus ever used for this purpose.
  • Second, since Google has said that automation translation is part of their core business of search, they are investing heavily in this area, so that people will be able to search and read documents originally written in other languages. They bring resources traditional MT firms have lacked.
While MT's 41-year history has been checkered, high quality translations may be here in time for the 50th anniversary of the first public demonstration of machine translation.

Google Blogoscoped offers a recap of the Google Factory Tour translation discussion, which Slashdot discusses ad nauseam, a phrase I will assume needs no translation.

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